Tony Tost Talks About Johnny Cash's American Recordings

Some of you may be familiar with an excellent podcast called Tony Tost's America. If you're not then I guarantee that you'll love it. I was delighted to learn some months ago that Tony was writing a book in Continuum's 33 ⅓ series about Johnny Cash's incredible 1994 comeback album American Recordings. It's a terrific, illuminating read that I'd recommend to anyone who loves Johnny Cash, and that record in particular. Earlier in the week I asked Tony about his book and Johnny Cash's late career resurgence. The whole shebang is on my blog Carnival Saloon.

 

The approach and style of the 33 ⅓ books are all quite different. What was your pitch when you suggested writing one about American Recordings?

My basic pitch was that American Recordings was the album that solidified the omnipresent, larger-than-life Cash that is still in circulation. My conceit was that I alone could tell the story of how it happened. I also suggested that Cash was a resolutely literary musician and that he could be best understood as a kind of novelist with one great, landmark character: the mythic version of himself. Using this framework, I argued, I would then turn American Recordings into a window onto the Cash legend as a whole. I tried to make it clear that I would shoot for the moon on this book, that I would try to get deeper into the man’s mind than any other writer would venture.

Cash released more than 50 albums in his career and you’re adamant that American Recordings is his very best. Why?

One, it was something I needed to tell myself in order to bring my total energy and conviction to this particular album. Two, it’s true. Cash wasn’t really the greatest albums artist, so it’s not like he had a series of masterpiece albums with which to contend. He was a Nashville artist in most ways, and Nashville still utilises a sort of pre-Beatles template: recognisable stars taking on the latest songs of the songwriting factory. That sounds like a disparaging description, but I don’t mean it to be. Bob McDill, who wrote amazing hits for Don Williams, Waylon Jennings, Alabama, Alan Jackson and others, was the consummate Nashville songwriter-for-hire, and he’s one of my ten or so favorite songwriters ever, in any genre.

But even his best songs for Don Williams are spread out over a decade of albums. And that’s how it goes, even with interpretive geniuses like George Jones, Tanya Tucker or George Strait. Usually, landmark albums come from singer-songwriter country artists - Merle Haggard has had a bunch, and Loretta Lynn, Willie Nelson and Dolly Parton have had some - or from singers working closely with a songwriter, like Waylon Jennings’ Honky Tonk Heroes, an album of Billy Joe Shaver songs, or Bobby Bare’s Lullabies, Legends and Lies, an album of Shel Silverstein numbers.

After his songwriting well went dry in the early 60s, a lot of Cash’s albums were in the hits-and-filler vein. It’s fun to sift through them to find little lost nuggets here and there (like Orphan of the Road on A Man in Black, or Cocaine Carolina on John R. Cash), but there aren’t very many albums that work as a cohesive, compelling whole vision, like Honky Tonk Heroes does.

The live San Quentin album I find to be the next most vital Cash album, and I’m also partial to some early 70s work, like A Man in Black. His very first albums for Columbia, like The Fabulous Johnny Cash, Songs of Our Soil and Now, There Was a Song are fantastic also. His Sun Records output towers over American Recordings (and much of recorded music) but that was as a singles artist (though endless compilations of his Sun Records work have been sold ever since).

My not-so-radical notion is that the best albums deliver great songs and a unique aural and thematic world. My favorite albums - Exile on Main Street, Tumbleweed Connection, Alien Lanes, Warren Zevon, The Band, Rumours, Moon Pix, Darkness on the Edge of Town, Toys in the Attic - do both consistently from start to finish. American Recordings has an urgency that is unique in the Cashian canon. He is both vulnerable and virile of voice. The comparisons to Springsteen’s Nebraska are apt, because there is a casual intimacy that makes the record very compelling, moving and discomforting. Other Cash albums are great products. American Recordings sounds like an emanation.

Do you think the film Walk the Line would have been made if Johnny hadn’t made American Recordings?

I don’t think Walk the Line gets made without the Rick Rubin resurrection narrative, no. And American Recordings was the start of that. Walk the Line is basically the prequel to the Hurt video. And we don’t get the Hurt song or video without the preceding stunt covers of Danzig, Soundgarden, Beck, Depeche Mode that Rubin encouraged.

I’m waiting for the sequel to Walk the Line, which I think would be a very different kind of movie. You’d have Cash’s career decline and missteps back into addiction and into adultery. You’d have Johnny and June’s corresponding religious fervor. There’s the traumatic robbery they suffered in Jamaica, when their son John Carter was held at gunpoint while thieves ransacked the place. There’s the infamous ostrich attack on the Cash property, with Johnny getting sliced open after picking a fight with the bird. That’s also a part of the Cash story. I’m interested in how one generates meaning and identity in the midst of all of this tawdry kind of crap, as opposed to the fairy tale of Walk the Line, that somehow suggests all the crap is erased by the redemptive powers of true love.

Could Johnny have staged a comeback quite as successfully without Rick Rubin?

There wouldn’t have been the publicity hook without Rubin, definitely. And probably not the opportunity, either. American Recordings really has become the blueprint for golden years comebacks. Just about every comeback album since then has picked up at least one of American Recordings' three hooks: 1) a stripped-down sound, to convey authenticity; 2) a mature artist working with a young buck producer; or 3) a mature artist taking on the songs of much younger artists. It’s a pretty good formula. I mean, I love the Glen Campbell comeback album from a couple of years ago, which is basically him covering Green Day and the Replacements in the style of his great Wichita Lineman and Galveston heyday. And while Jack White’s work with Loretta Lynn and Wanda Jackson should put Rubin a little to shame, he's also picking up on some of the American Recordings fairy dust.

Rubin rightly recognised that a stripped-down approach would not only produce intrigue with Cash, but that it’d also force him to sing more directly and plainly, allowing the genius of his voice to come through. But it’s not like Rubin was some kind of Midas figure with Cash. There’s an anecdote I touch upon in the book, where Cash is doing take after take of Robert Palmer’s Addicted to Love because Rubin thinks they could score a hit with it. The whole time, Tom Petty and the Heartbreakers, Cash’s backing band for the sessions, were fighting not to burst into laughter, even though they all idolised Cash. It was just so stupid, they had to laugh. And some of the stuff, especially in albums three and four, got similarly insipid. I’m actively embarrassed to listen to the covers of In My Life and Bridge Over Troubled Water,” bad enough songs in their own right, but it was especially dumb to have Cash sing them, as though his purpose were to provide funeral songs for the world’s most sentimental bikers or something.

I’m still not convinced Rubin really knew what he had with Cash. Neil Diamond is great and all, but in what universe other than Rubin’s are they comparable figures? But he did lead Cash to a better artistic place. And Rubin gives good copy, which is important, and he gives an entry point for magazine writers, so he helped give Cash a renewed sense of relevance and audience. And he believed in Cash, which encouraged the great man to take some risks that really paid off. In my view, the whole Cash and Rubin collaboration was worthwhile if it produced nothing else but the albums American Recordings, Unchained, A Hundred Highways and the songs Hurt, I See a Darkness and The Man Comes Around, the latter of which I think is Cash’s great triumph.

In the acknowledgments you thank Leigh (who I presume is your wife) for helping you “cut down the references to Johnny Cash’s mythic genitalia”. Now’s your opportunity. Do you have any favourite anecdotes about Johnny’s johnson?

Oh, I have no real world anecdotes. It was just a sort of jokey literary motif I overdeveloped, to my wife's annoyance. If Cash were some kind of legendary cocksmith, that’s between him and June and the state of Tennessee.

  You make an interesting point in the book that on American Recordings Cash seemed to abandon one of the great themes of much of his of earlier work - social justice. Why do you think that was?

I’ll pin some of that on Rubin, who I still think had a shallow sense of Cash as just this menacing Man in Black figure. Cash and Rubin both, they fell too in love with the whole redemption bit, and started forgetting about vengeance, justice, humor, screwing. And I also think they were afraid that anything too protesty would make Cash sound like a 60s relic, as if social justice were a fad (this makes me think about seeing protesters dressed up in tie-dye shirts in order to march against the invasion of Iraq years ago).

After the first American Recordings, the number one order of business was the resurrection of Johnny Cash as Johnny Cash. But on the first album, the net was wider. The first album was concerned with history, which has always been a great subject for country musicians, maybe THE great subject of country music. Also: it’s really hard to write a great song with social justice as a theme. Cash had been lucky to have discovered the work of Peter LaFarge in the 60s, since The Ballad of Ira Hayes and As Long as the Grass Shall Grow are among the best social justice songs around. But it’s not impossible to write a good song along these lines. As I wrote in the book, I think Marty Stuart (with help from Cash’s son John Carter Cash) succeeded in writing the kind of American Indian themed album Cash promised but never delivered when Stuart wrote and recorded his Badlands album from a few years ago.

To my mind the American Recordings series got a bit out hand. I forked out for the outtakes box but I don’t even own the second posthumous album. What’s your take on the subsequent albums?

A Hundred Highways should have been the stopping point. That second posthumous album is pretty mild, at best. Who really wants to hear Cash cover a Sheryl Crow song, even if it does mention trains? I’d be surprised if there wasn’t a copy of the Monkees’ Last Train to Clarksville on one of the suggested covers CDs Rubin sent periodically to Cash. The Rubin years are hit or miss, but the high points are undeniable. I think Unchained is a terrific album. I like half of Solitary Man a lot, and I adore the first two songs on The Man Comes Around.

There’s a playlist I’ve put together of the Cash-Rubin collaboration, and I listen to it more than just about anything, so I’d be dishonest if I completely crapped on the late run. That playlist goes:

1) The Man Comes Around, 2) God’s Gonna Cut You Down, 3) Spiritual, 4) Ain’t No Grave, 5) Thirteen, 6) Further on Up the Road, 7) Hurt, 8) I See a Darkness, 9) Rowboat, 10) Like the 309, 11) The Beast in Me, 12) Rusty Cage, 13) Down There By the Train, 14) The Mercy Seat, 15) Delia’s Gone, 16) Redemption, 17) Redemption Song, 18) Southern Accents, 19) On the Evening Train

I can listen to this playlist for days and days. So, I’m really glad these late albums exist, and that Cash had the chance to redefine and re-explore himself in his final decade. Sometimes I think of these late albums as a bit of a lost opportunity, but the opportunity itself was a bit of a miracle, so I should also be thankful that it even occurred.

 

You can read the full interview on my blog Carnival SaloonTony's book about American Recordings is out now. Buy it at Amazon (UK) or Amazon (US). Better still, see if it's in your local bookshop or ask them to order you copy.


Related Posts on Carnival Saloon
Johnny Cash: Chicken in Black - just so you know why Johnny needed a credibility comeback
A Cup of Coffee with Johnny Cash - Cash hawks Folgers, as heard on Tony Tost's America

Related Links
Tony Tost's America - if you like Carnival Saloon, you'll love Tony's podcast
33 ⅓ books - official blog for the series

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Tags: Johnny Cash, interview

Comment by steviedal on May 9, 2011 at 9:13am

Great stuff , i enjoyed it a lot.
The "John R. Cash" album is a firm favourite of mine and i think it's all good , though the David Allan Coe song is a standout i'd agree. Pity it doesn't seem to be available on CD these days although it's on download , worth checking out folks !

I'd never heard the full "Man In Black" album but that's a d/load as well now so thanks for the tip guys ! 

Comment by Mick Rhodes on May 9, 2011 at 11:53am
Great take. I agree with most all of it. Bridge over Troubled Water is an abomination!
Comment by Jack Williams on May 12, 2011 at 2:35pm

Let's not forget his version of  Danny Boy.

 

Great interview.  Me, I loved I and II, throughly enjoyed III, and liked enough of IV through VI.  Thought the box set was a winner for the most part. 

 

The Rubin records are largely responsible for me getting into Johhny Cash in a big way.  Before that, I thought of him as more my parents' music, although I did like the popular Sun singles.   In the early '90s, I remember seeing on a schedule that he was coming to the old Birchmere in Alexandria, VA. I thought of going just to see the legend.  I ended up not going as I figured I wouldn't be enough into the music.  Ouch.

 

Comment by Nigel Smith on May 13, 2011 at 6:41am
Thanks for your kind comments. I've been listening to Tony's recommended American Recordings playlist a lot. It will banish all memories of Danny Boy and Bridge Over Troubled Water.
Comment by Tyrone T. Nuno on May 14, 2011 at 10:55am
the only reason people think  American Recordings are Cash's best albums are because they haven't heard the Sun material, many people seem to think Johnny started his career in the late 80s,as much as I like the Tony Tost's America podcast's I find the Rick Rubin stuff almost unlistenable,there are a few cuts that are good like Cash's version of Haggards Ramblin Fever, Don Gibson's Sea of Heartbreak, but that NIN song is embarrising I know I'm committing Heresy here but Cash's Golden Era was surely in the 50s+60s, Please people get and listen to Johnny's original versions of Hey Porter,Folsom Prison Blues,Big River,Rock Island Line,Cry Cry Cry,Home of The Blues,Tenn.Flat Top Box,I Walk The Line  on Sam Phillips Sun Records and I Still Miss Someone,Ring of Fire from his early records for Columbia. Why do people think Bob Dylan Idolizes Cash? Surely it's not because of his Duet with Sheryl Crow
Comment by Nigel Smith on May 15, 2011 at 11:17am
Tyrone - I don't think anyone doubts the genius of Johnny Cash's Sun material.  As Tony says in the interview, "His Sun Records output towers over American Recordings... but that was as a singles artist". From the mid-60s onwards  Johnny wasn't much of an albums man. What's interesting about at least the first two American Recordings LPs is that they are cohesive albums. Another reason I think the Rick Rubin albums are held in such high regard is that for a lot of people they were their first exposure to Johnny Cash. Don't forget that Johnny was pretty irrelevant to most causal music fans in the 70s and 80s. The American Recordings albums were a proper mainstream comeback. Even if not many people initially bought them they definitely cemented a mythic image of JC in the public consciousness (something Tony writes about well in his book). If it's any consolation I suspect a lot of people who did get into Johnny Cash via the AR records then explored the Sun singles pretty swiftly afterwards.

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Created by No Depression Feb 17, 2009 at 9:06pm. Last updated by No Depression Sep 24, 2012.