Comment by hyperbolium.com on February 23, 2011 at 2:21pm

An ironic arrangement of responses: Jack posts a link to a report by the Cato Institute, Adam posts a link to a story about a fake David Koch interviewing Gov. Scott Walker. The connection? David Koch's brother Charles is the co-founder and initial financial sponsor of the Cato Institute. Which doesn't make the report wrong, but certainly inclines one to inspect it more closely. And upon closer inspection, it's still unclear what they're measuring, and more importantly, what they're comparing. Numerous factors that might skew the comparison -- such as job mix, equivalency and mean tenure -- aren't mentioned, rendering facile their reduction of millions of compensation package across multiple regions, socioeconomic, job categories, etc. Again, they may be right, but you certainly can't tell from their statistical sophistry.

Comment by Jack on February 23, 2011 at 3:25pm

Hyperbolium, well, I couldn't find anything from George Soros.  Here's another analysis pulled from the ever authoritative USA today, which also cites stats from the US Bureau Of Labor Statistics; it gives the same general flavor with just a bit more breakdown. I agree with you that there are variables these stats may not capture or explain, and that the source is important.  Do you suspect that government employees are under compensated, and if so, where does your perception come from?  Anyway, for what it's worth, see below:

 

Key findings:

• Federal. The federal pay premium cut across all job categories — white-collar, blue-collar, management, professional, technical and low-skill. In all, 180 jobs paid better average salaries in the federal government; 36 paid better in the private sector.

•Private. The private sector paid more on average in a select group of high-skill occupations, including lawyers, veterinarians and airline pilots. The government's 5,200 computer research scientists made an average of $95,190, about $10,000 less than the average in the corporate world.

•State and local. State government employees had an average salary of $47,231 in 2008, about 5% less than comparable jobs in the private sector. City and county workers earned an average of $43,589, about 2% more than private workers in similar jobs. State and local workers have higher total compensation than private workers when the value of benefits is included.

 

Average federal salaries exceed average private-sector pay in 83% of comparable occupations. A sampling of average annnual salaries in 2008, the most recent data:

Job

Federal

Private

Difference

Comment by Adam Sheets on February 23, 2011 at 3:32pm

Yes, I suspect that government employees are under-compensated and that perception comes from witnessing countless friends and family members struggle to make ends meet day after day, week after week. I've seen their benefits cuts year after year as big businesses get welfare. I've seen prison guards who had to take second jobs in fast food. But if you're considering the rich CEOs on Wall Street government employees, which you should considering their benefits, that the average salaries are pretty high. Again, all this is is a civil war orchestrated by the privileged class and pitting the working class against one another, making us forget that THEY are the real enemy.

Comment by Jack on February 24, 2011 at 6:41am

Hyperbolium, I tried unsuccessfully to cut/paste a more detailed table comparison from the USA as noted above, so instead, here's the link for whatever it's worth. 

 

http://www.usatoday.com/news/nation/2010-03-04-federal-pay_N.htm

 

I got a huge chuckle out of the blogger who spoofed Walker. 

 

Have enjoyed reading everyone's forceful views and the fact there was no personal acidity. Catch you on a different discussion.

Comment by hyperbolium.com on February 24, 2011 at 8:18am

Do you suspect that government employees are under compensated, and if so, where does your perception come from?

I have absolutely no clue either way, and would be just as wary of numbers offered by George Soros. What I do know is that statistics can lie, and very easily. The USAToday piece suffers the same opacity as the Cato Institute's, as it's unclear whether the comparisons are like-to-like. On the surface, the numbers are startling, but without some color on the undocumented variables - complexity of work, quality of work, mean worker age, career tenure, etc. - it's hard to know if these statistics are meaningful.

Comment by Easy Ed on February 24, 2011 at 9:04am

You know, greed seems to be a human trait that doesn't distinguish itself from union worker to non-union worker. Meaning that there is no question that some people game the system to their benefit. Be it the cop who logs a ton of overtime on his last year in service to jack up his annual pension, or the CEO who borrows five million from the corporation and then has his hand-picked board of directors "forgive the loan" and write it off against profits. Both are terribly wrong and somewhere, someone has to pay for this. 

 

This conversation over the past few days has centered on the mis-deeds of some, as well as trying to paint one side or another as the bad guys. In the case of Wisconsin, despite numerous posts here explaining that the unions have already conceded the points in regards to benefits and pension contributions, some still choose to make that the topic. It's not. The problem is that certain people are working hard and in concert and conspiracy, to take away the rights of workers...basic rights as defined by our laws and international human right's organizations. 

 

Probably the greatest problem facing this country and my children is not the growing deficit, healthcare or any number of potential foreign military operations. It's the wide division between what I'l call the super rich versus everyone else. The middle class is being pushed into lower income levels and losing benefits while those that have amassed wealth are using their money to take control of the political process though the old means of special interest groups and lobbying, and the newer means such as corporate donations and communication, as we see on their sharp skills to stay on task with talking points and rallying cries. (To be continued)

Comment by Easy Ed on February 24, 2011 at 9:04am

I t's this division of classes that will tear the fabric of America apart. When I watch the films of what is transpiring in the Middle East, or of late in my reading about the rise of Germany after the first World War and the extermination of millions of people, it's not so far fetched to think it can't happen here, because it can.

 

So where are the voices today? I don't know Adam...maybe their there but we just can't hear them. Or maybe their not ready to be heard. I do know that in the past few days I've seen and heard more Woody Guthrie music than ever before. Maybe it's because he already has said what needs to be heard.

Comment by dansullivan9026 on February 25, 2011 at 4:41am

Adam,   I'm 61.   I'm old school.    But here's my contribution for what it's worth.

 

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2TENDXRws9M

Comment by Lucky Mud on February 25, 2011 at 5:57am

God, I love these blogs! I'm not tring to be a smart-ass, either, it's just that I learn so much not just about current events but the sea of different ideas from so many sides.

     We've been told, more than once,  at major festivals, to be careful and make sure we don't get political. Imagine that. Folk singers told not to sing to, well.....folks.

Comment by Easy Ed on February 25, 2011 at 7:07am

@Dan Sullivan.....I love it. Great job...despite your advanced age.

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