Uncle Tupelo & The Jayhawks

It seems like each time Wilco or Son Volt releases a new record, the obligatory debate about the relative merits of each band gets rehashed ad nauseum, which is to say the discussion quickly devolves into a Tweedy/Farrar "tastes great/less filling" type back and forth, with few people taking the middle ground and no one convincing anyone of anything. But most fans of Jeff and Jay will agree that Uncle Tupelo was one hell of a band.  During the same period that Uncle Tupelo was active, late 80's/early 90's, the Jayhawks were also doing remarkable work. But Uncle Tupelo seemed to get most of the credit at the time for reinvigorating roots music. So I'm wondering, all these years later, prompted by the release of Wilco's latest and the Jayhawks new record, not whether Tweedy beats Farrar but whether Uncle Tupelo or the Jayhawks will stand the test of time as being the more influential band of the two.  Of course it's all subjective and there's no real right answer (mine is that both bands were equally astounding for different reasons), but I am curious to know if there's a similar "one or the other but not both" approach among fans to Uncle Tupelo and the Jayhawks. I'd guess not.

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Permalink Reply by L A Johnson on October 25, 2011 at 10:58pm

Jayhawks flirtered with more the poppier sound whilst UT remained roots based. Tweedy is a great songwriter - managing to explore new sounds whilst retaining MOST of his audience.  I think both are just fine, the most influential who knows? For me, Tweedy shades it over Louris & Farrar.

Permalink Reply by JeffK on October 26, 2011 at 7:58am
I agree that both bands were equally great for different reasons.  If one is talking about influence, it might go to Uncle Tupelo and its spin-offs Wilco and Son Volt, as I would guess more see them as more foundational to the genre.  And maybe Uncle Tupelo has more of a legendary status because of its shorter time as a band.  But to fair, although I might think of Uncle Tupelo as "more important" in some ways, I probably listen to my Jayhawks albums more than my Uncle Tupelo CDs.  Still, it is like comparing apples and oranges in some ways because I love all of their albums.  Additionally, if we are talking about bands and their spin-offs, then maybe one might throw Whiskeytown in the mix, as Ryan Adams has a new CD too (I reviewed the new CDs from Ryan Adams and The Jayhawks on Chimesfreedom).  Thanks for the interesting question.
Permalink Reply by Jack on October 26, 2011 at 3:55pm

Jeff, that was a thoughtful response.  I'd guess that Uncle Tupelo's relatively brief career had something to do with their legend.  On the other hand, they certainly generated a heightened level of critical and popular success at the time, relatively speaking; the title of their first record certainly took on a life of it's own while the group was intact.  But the Uncle Tupelo legend also grew retroactively with the subsequent careers of Farrar and Tweedy. I don't think Uncle Tupelo received too much credit for refreshing roots music, because they sure did that. I just suspect the Jayhawks were a bit overshadowed back then, and perhaps still today, despite doing equally amazing work. Also, the Jayhawks have a larger body of work over a longer period of time, and we all know that creativity is hard to sustain. As for bands and spin offs, I'd hope we can avoid that tangent in this thread...

Permalink Reply by Shawn Edward Cote on November 8, 2011 at 5:12am
The Jayhawks may have been better at doing the "pretty stuff," as Jeff Tweedy is quoted somewhere as having said, but I think it's obvious that Uncle Tupelo had more of an impact.  No Depression magazine, after all, started out as an Uncle Tupelo online message board.  Indeed, the whole so-called No Depression scene owes its very moniker and existence to Uncle Tupelo--if not, indirectly, the Carter Family and James David Vaughan.  And without Uncle Tupelo, there would be no Wilco or Son Volt.  So, yeah, I think they clearly have an edge over the Jayhawks here. Plus, their music is just tougher.
Permalink Reply by Mike Sweeney on November 8, 2011 at 6:21am

It's a personal preference thing. These bands were completely different in their approach, skills & delivery. Much of the UT praise comes post-mortem, and I think a lot of it is based on what Farrar & Tweedy have done since then. Personally, I think they are worthy of a lot of praise, and they grew into being a pretty incredible band over a short-lived time. But, I think the Jayhawks had the edge earlier on with musicianship and songwriting. Then again, Jason & The Scorchers came along before both of these bands & they had songwriting, chops and without question put on the best live shows of all 3 bands.

 

So, in conclusion, I guess my vote would go to Golden Smog. :)

Permalink Reply by Booka Michel on November 8, 2011 at 7:53am
C'mon.. Roots music was clearly being revived at the time by the Joe Ely Band (the version with Jesse Taylor and Lloyd Maines) whose repertoire was made up of songs written by Butch Hancock and Jimmie Gilmore. Uncle Tupelo were extremely influenced by this trio and wrote and recorded music in this vein. Also, credit has to be given to Los Lobos, as to bringing about any 'roots revival' during this time period. As far as staying power, see above.
Permalink Reply by Jack on November 8, 2011 at 9:24am
Booka, the Joe Ely Band of that era, especially with the late, great Jesse Taylor on guitar, was doing wonderful work.  Joe is still putting out great music - Satisfied At Last is terrific, and you just can't beat his live shows.  But I don't think they generated anything approaching the buzz that Uncle Tupelo did, then or since.  As for Los Lobos, sure, they were and are properly noted for helping reinvigorate roots music, as were the Blasters and others before them.  But Uncle Tupelo's legend seems outsized in comparison to the Jayhawks, and I'm simply wondering what people think about that.   
Permalink Reply by Shawn Edward Cote on November 8, 2011 at 3:54pm

Jack, part of the reason for what you call Uncle Tupelo's "outsized legend" may be the fact that they weren't around long enough to make a bad or mediocre album.  They went out at the top of their game.  Had the Jayhawks called it quits after Olson left the band, maybe they would have garnered a little more mystique.  (Does anyone remember Sound of Lies?  I didn't, until I reacquainted myself with their discography.)  I haven't heard the new album, but nothing I've read about it suggests it's in the same league as Hollywood Town Hall or Tomorrow the Green Grass.  "The secret to a happy ending," says Patterson Hood, "is knowing when to roll the credits."  The longevity of a band is no reason for it be revered.  Maybe the secret to a durable mythology is knowing when to wrap things up.  

Permalink Reply by Jack on November 8, 2011 at 5:41pm

Shawn - to my ears, Still Feel Gone is no prize, it struck me then and now me as a middling effort at best, especially in contrast to that brilliant debut and the two subsequent records. But I agree with you that they went out at the top of their game, with at least three of their four records being exceptionally inspired. Of course, their inability to work together rather than a sense of when to hang it up did them in. As for the Jayhawks latest, I like it a great deal; it's a solid effort. It's not in the same league as Hollywood or Tomorrow.  It's neither out of the blue late career brilliance like Dylan's Time Out of Mind and most of the string of records after that, nor is it a steep fall from grace like with REM, where the band continued on momentum as a hollow shell of it's former self. It reflects a band very much in a vibrant mode. As for Patterson Hood's quote, I found it ironic, much as I did Michael Stipes very similar comment at the end. If you're applying that to the Jayhawks, I'd say "not yet".

Permalink Reply by Shawn Edward Cote on November 8, 2011 at 5:50pm

Still Feel Gone is definitely the weakest of their four albums overall, salvaged largely by "Still Be Around" and "True to Life," which are among Farrar's finest songs; some might add Tweedy's "Gun".  

 

I agree with you about REM.  As with the TV series M*A*S*H, they kept it going way longer than they should have.  

Permalink Reply by chris sweeney on November 8, 2011 at 7:44pm

Shawn, I have stayed out of this discussion mainly because I respect both bands very much. I personally am a much bigger fan of the Jayhawks (personal preference - I don't knock those on the UT side of things).

"Does anyone remember Sound of Lies" prompted this response. I do and I absolutely love that record. I also like Smile and Rainy Day Music for that matter. Many thought when Mark Olson left that would be the end of the Jayhawks but actually it allowed Gary Louris to blossom as a writer and bandleader.

Gary's solo record, "Vagabonds" and his various production and co-writing credits over the last few years tell me he his not ready to "roll the credits" just yet!

Permalink Reply by John Hanske on November 8, 2011 at 2:56pm

How about lets talk about Anodyne and Hollywood Town Hall, my personal faves of these bands.  In a way they are almost uncomparable.  It's like asking if you think Rubber Soul or Revolver has stood the test of time better. I think at that time I was happy just to have these great bands to listen to. I can't speak to the influence either band has had since to me they were a permutation on a older form.  Call them the third or fourth (fifth) generation country rock bands in a broad sense. In the pantheon of great country rock releases these two records certainly have earned a spot.

And remember these two bands released these records amidst the hyper-buzz of grunge. Iwasn't a big grunge fan so these two CD's were a sonic oasis for me much in the way REM was 10 years prior during the punk-new wave onslaught.

I was also listening to American Music Clubs - Mercury release at the time. These three cds (tapes) were in constant rotation in my Vanagon at the time. All these albums have their four star moments and they all withstand constant replays.  So I would say Uncle Tupelo and the Jayhawks have certainly earned staying power through the strength and quality of their output. They are definitely niche bands.

 

Tweedy seems to be the only person out of this bunch that has truly reached a larger public. But he moved out of the alt-country niche to do so.  Wilco has been denied their proper place in mainstream rock due to the decline of the record industry and the music business. You release Wilco records in the 90's world of the music biz and they are up there with Tom Petty and U2. But maybe that's a different discussion!

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Created by No Depression Feb 17, 2009 at 9:06pm. Last updated by No Depression Apr 9.