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Permalink Reply by Derek on September 13, 2009 at 5:26pm

I agree that Sinatra is the most overrated singer. On the flip-side, I think Bing Crosby is underrated, at least with current critics.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Clinton on September 14, 2009 at 9:21am

Crosby was wonderful, a huge talent. I think his ability to make everything look easy caused people to underrate him.

The 30s and 40s had so many wonderful singers and phrasing was an essential part of the art. Ella Fitzgerald, Ella Mae Morse (speaking of underrated), Bullmoose Jackson, Billy Eckstein, Joe Williams, etc. etc.

My final verdict on Sinatra came when I bought the first Sopranos soundtrack compilation. Sinatra's "It Was a Very Good Year" is followed by Dylan's "Serve Somebody." The contrast is devastating to Sinatra fans--he comes off wooden and pretentious. Dylan's reading is masterful.

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Permalink Reply by Rudyjeep on September 15, 2009 at 9:10am

Listen to "Luck be a Lady" and "In the Wee Small Hours" and tell me Sinatra is overrated. The only standards singers in the same league as Sinatra are Johnny Mathis and Nat King Cole (on the male side).

The Frank and Bing debate reminds me of the 40's Warner Brothers cartoon where Porky hired the "Frankie" and "Bing" roosters to get the chickens to lay a lot of eggs!

Elvis is the most overrated singer. He was the "American Idol" winner of his day and the Colonel milked it for all it was worth.

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Permalink Reply by Tom on September 15, 2009 at 9:19am

I don't agree with Jim, but I'm not going to argue. I'll just post a response that comes to mind when trying to understand his comment.

Rod Stewart, the voice of one of the greatest rock'n'roll bands ever. Living proof that it's not just about having a good voice, but how you use it.

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Permalink Reply by Sandy Herder on September 18, 2009 at 7:13am

I can't stand Sinatra. His voice is like nails on a chalkboard to me. It sounds like he's biting off the end of each line.

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Permalink Reply by Amos Perrine on September 19, 2009 at 5:14am

Elvis P & Elvis C are way overrated, especially the pandering latter one. Sinatra's 50's sides are pure heaven, his rat pack schtick was embarrassing even at the time. While most of us remember Crosby from his maudlin White Christmas days, he set the standard for those who came later, his sense of timing & great feel for jazz has been long forgotten. But the most underrated of all time is, because she has been nearly been forgotten, Lee Wiley -- the jazz singing chanteuse who is the template for jazz singing for the past 70 years -- second only to Billie Holiday, who is in a class by herself. And Mabel Mercer is, perhaps, even more neglected. Sinatra was a fan of both Wiley & Mercer.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Clinton on September 19, 2009 at 12:46pm

I have no quarrel with those who admire Sinatra's work in the 50s. I do feel that his work prior to that was mediocre and his work after that a caricature. Given his exalted status with many critics, he remains my most overrated.

Rod Stewart's not a bad comparison--sublime work with Beck, Faces and first few solo albums. Then dreck, dreck and dreck, followed by his criminal American Songbook work. And, at his best, he was after all just channeling Sam Cooke.

I will track down Mabel Mercer and Lee Wiley thanks to Amos Perrine's post--which could make all of this worthwhile...

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Permalink Reply by Amos Perrine on September 19, 2009 at 5:01pm

As Jim Clinton appears to be a potential fan and as Lee Wiley has a bunch of recordings -- much of it mish-mashed together -- I will suggest a couple of CDs to begin with. First, are some of her 1950's recordings, especially the two 10" LPs of "Night in Manhattan" and "Lee Wiley Sings Rodgers & Hart." Both, including the rest of her CBS recordings, are available on the 2 CD set, "Complete Fifties Studio Masters." The three 10" LPs she did for CBS are also available on a single CD, "Night in Manhattan/Sings Vincent Youmans/Sings Irving Berlin." The "Night in Manhattan" record is her masterpiece, the other two you must put up with the twin twinkling pianos of Stan Freeman & Cy Walter -- but, oh that voice.



The other place to start is her 1939 & 1940 recordings "Lee Wiley Sings the Songs of George & Ira Gershwin & Cole Porter" on a Jazzology CD that set the standard. She established "I've Got a Crush on You" as a jazz vocal standard -- before she slowed it down, it was an uptempo, near frivolous song. These recordings were among the first, if not the first on record, with a small jazz combo instead of a big band. And most significantly, with those recordings -- and two later sets -- she was the first singer to to do songbook recordings where an entire record was devoted to a single composer. Before the LP, she released four 78 RPM albums consisting of eights songs each. She bested Ella by over a decade.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Clinton on September 20, 2009 at 12:11pm

Thanks very much, Amos. Treasures are found in the strangest ways. For example, Richard Thompson's "Al Bowlly's in Heaven (and I'm in limbo now)" led me to Al Bowlly. Your comment on Lee's voice (transcending the "twin twinkling pianos") reminds me of Richard singing "and there's Al Bowlly/he's up on the stand/ah that was a voice/and that was a band."

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Permalink Reply by Amos Perrine on September 20, 2009 at 2:28pm

Unfortunately, Lee was somewhat lackadaisical about her career. While she spent her prime singing years (1940's) playing Wendy to Eddie Condon's Peter Pan & his Lost Boys, it was sadly augmented by at least one episode of a disease that left her temporarily blinded and somewhat disfigured on one side of her face. After the last of her four songbook series, her recorded output for the rest of the 40's was never intended for release. Eddie Condon performed a series of Town Hall concerts for radio's Blue Network and transcriptions were made for the Armed Services -- and she usually performed two songs at each show.

Thank goodness someone kept copies as last year Jazzology (it's founder and owner, George Buck is great fan) released a compilation of those performances. And it includes an interview at the end. In addition to all her songbooks, he also re-released her last studio album, 1972's "Back Home Again" and her last known performance at the 1972 Newport Jazz Festival that was held at Carnegie Hall. It is also unfortunate that there is no biography of her. The best we have is one-third of a chapter in Will Friedwald's "Jazz Singing" devoted to her and liner notes. The singer Barbara Lea may be the best singular source on her life. Barbara did a record some 20 years ago dedicated to Lee, titled "Remembering Remembering Lee Wiley."

There was also a 1963 made for TV movie "There's Something About Lee Wiley" that was mostly fictional I understand, directed by Sydney Pollack and starring Piper Laurie.

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Permalink Reply by Jim Clinton on September 20, 2009 at 3:05pm

I've listened to some of her work on Youtube this afternoon--there's a lot there. Unfortunately, nothing that shows her singing. The still photos reveal a beautiful woman, however. There's an interview (Japanese television, I think) with Barbara Lea about her. One of the great joys of being a lifelong lover of music is that there is always someone or some song to discover. Some of the best memories of live music that I have are discovering great warm-up acts. Now, I have Lea Wiley just because I was trashing Frank. My father, who died fifty years ago today, called Frank "Notsohotra." Again, thanks Amos (and ND).

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